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Just wondering who all has repeated this? Definitely 8b? Feels similar to Spitfire 8a+ though I haven't done either... Have holds been lost/gained on the hand rail?

Michael Lee19:17, 18 August 2010

Hold on the rail has changed i believe - but Spitfire seems to be regarded as a tough 8a+...

Mark McGowan19:52, 18 August 2010

I think Tolerance is 8a+ (I think that is the secret consensus among those of us who have repeated it).

Alan Cassidy07:42, 19 August 2010

The ascents I know of are: Dave Mac (FA), Malc, Me, Rob Sutton, Niall McNair

Alan Cassidy07:43, 19 August 2010

...of course, i am quite happy to take 8b for this...albeit a very soft touch 8b!

I think there's a place for soft touch routes such as this though. For those breaking into the grade, it's a great motivator and for those solid at the grade, a nice bit of fun. I think as i get older i feel less inclined to downgrade and just take the grade, there can certainly be some ego-isty (made up word, sorry) involved in downgrading stuff...

exactly which hold has changed?

remember spitfire is half the length of tolerance with almost no shake-outs, tolerance does have an ok-ish stopping place just before you join dum-dum boys and of course the ledge higher up. I think the top moves on spitfire are harder than anything on tolerance but spitfire is much shorter...not really sure what my point is here...

Niall McNair13:09, 19 August 2010

yeah, i'm happy with 8b, especially if all the others are going to be 8a these days. Plus downgarding sucks - I'm hearing my only V12 is now being touted at V10!!!

More on that..... I've done 1 V11 in "the cave" which i thought was V10 but a lot of folk still take at V11 - Sabotage is harder than that ergo min V11 IMH-(route climber's)-O

Alan Cassidy21:31, 19 August 2010
Edited by another user.
Last edit: 12:33, 20 August 2010

Cheers for that. There's an area of freshly exposed rock to the left end of the rail, dunno if it makes it harder though.

...not really sure what my point is here...

That they're difficult to compare?

The aged upgrade, the youth downgrade... I think there is an element of egotism in both. Leave grades as they are unless it's impossible not to change them. In the case of Sabotage... I'd have been embarrassed to've taken 8a+ for it. 8a is fair. It's not 7c+ unless Nic Duboust climbs it!

Michael Lee10:02, 20 August 2010

7c+ by the end of the year then. (I think 8a is right)

Alan Cassidy10:11, 20 August 2010

Don't think ill be doing sabotage anytime soon!

But tolerance would be nice to get done. Would be nice to get an 8b tick for it but I could see why people think it might be easier. If this and voodoo magic both get downgrades there will be no local 8b to try :(

I think doing the crux of dum dum boys will be hard after not really any rest!

Nicolas Duboust10:49, 20 August 2010

Sabotage, Sabotage, Sabotage............

It's the easiest 8a I've done but I do think it's 8a, just................It's a bloody amazing problem whatever the grade.....

Willackers10:56, 21 August 2010

"rock climbing is easy...competitions are hard"

Alan Cassidy08:26, 22 August 2010

The left hand side pull on dum dum boys has broken off now... felt freakin' hard today - all thats left is a slopey ripple with a small spike for first finger. Quite happy because it's gotta 8b for sure now.

Michael Lee20:47, 1 September 2010

Is this where you go from sufferance into dum dum? there's a wee shake out on edges then you reach left for dum dum? when i did it, i used the mono and wee two finger pocket above and then rocked up to a good hold on the ramp of dum dum...

Niall McNair21:53, 1 September 2010

Yeh it's where you reach left. I'm not using those pockets though, there's a small incut righthand sidepull which I use for the rock up.

Michael Lee09:31, 2 September 2010
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