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Presumably because it was "confirmed at E6 by D. Birkett and D. MacLeod"

Mark Somerville 14:52, 6 June 2006 (BST)13:34, 29 November 2010

Stand beneath that overhang with less than a quarter tonne of steelies and ask yourself is this route really E6? Have been told its F7b+ climbing on good holds and quite good protection. A likely E6 then... Note the Gathering is F7b+ climbing and it gets E8? No pro though

--Dredpath 15:18, 6 June 2006 (BST)13:36, 29 November 2010

Mr Latter, who is no stranger to E6's, gave it E8 and reckoned 7c+ climbing. Niall couldn't onsight it the same year he onsighted other E7's and 8a's, Dave McLeod didn't on sight it, dunno about Dave Birkett but they should all be capable at this grade. I reckon it's about E6 to tie into a rope underneath it. Slightly surprising to see it at number 59 on a list with stuff like Love Buzz and Craig's Wall 20 places higher!

unknown13:39, 29 November 2010

It is E6, miles easier than Love Buzz and Craigs Wall (and Wild Country for that matter). I remember thinking as I did the crux move "this is similar to but way easier than Gorilla at Dumby!" F7b clip up. I could still be an E8 if someone did it without any hammered pro. If it's E8 then Rhapsody is E14. Standing beneath a route is not a good method of grading it, climbing it is better! Niall is an awesome onsighter but hasn't onsighted E7.

Dave MacLeod13:40, 29 November 2010
Edited by author.
Last edit: 13:41, 29 November 2010

Adding my opinion here cos I cant log on the forums in my user name for some reason at the mo which has been very frustrating all day...: I would LOVE this route to be E7, but over the years since doing it, I have come to think either hard E6 or barely E6/7. I did say at the time "def E7" but maybe that's my ego talking. Maybe as time goes on in my memory it seems to be gettting easier? French 7b climbing cos there are hard sections but as Dave says, two no hands rest. It is of similar standard of difficulty to Romantic Reality but obviously totally different climbing. I think once the pegs start falling out it will become E7 and then E8 and then it will get bolted in a 150 years time and climbers will teleport to the base of it rather than doing the 2 hour walk in...ummm, anyway.

I have not onsighted E7 yet (just some pissy little thing in yorkshire which isnt a "proper" E7) and it is likely to be some years before I do, i was not onsighting 8a the same year as doing Dalriada but had just broken into the 7c+ range but remember it feeling just as pumpy and hard as Mirage 7c+ at Ceuse but that's pegs for you.

I think in the end it should be confirmed by someone who has onsighted it and has plenty of experience with E6s and E7s; all the ascents (and Birkett's?) have been flawed in some way or other that makes it difficult to judge the right grade of it, but where would we climbers be if it wasnt for discussions like these?

Love, Niall

Niall (2006)13:41, 29 November 2010

I agree with Niall

It should be graded for on-sight by who ever on sights the route. On sighting is so much harder than other styles and so the on-sight grade could perhaps be left open for when it gets done. It may of course had already been done..who knows.

...just a thought.

cheers Mark

Mark McGowan16:43, 30 November 2010

Did Mr Tweedley not think E7 after spending a lot of time on it?

ColinMoody18:11, 31 December 2010
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